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  1. Mahavir
  2. Master Gita Master Life
  3. 20 March 2019
Initial instructions for meditation were to chant mantra in mind and increase space between chants.

Subsequent instructions were to be a witness of thoughts and to not be involved with them like a bystander watching vehicles. In this there was no chanting but staying aware of I am not those thoughts, not Jiva

Here, I do get involved in thoughts sometimes. To come back to being witness, I have to chant - sometimes that works and I feel peace, but sometimes chanting at that time feels like suppressing those other thoughts and I don’t feel peaceful -

Would it be correct to say Karma Yoga (for actions represented by those thoughts) was not done correctly in that case?

What else could be the cause?
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  1. GANESH
  2. 2 months ago
  3. #71
To experience the PEACE, I am forcing my mind to do the chant. When i dont experience the peace i am following the fleeting thoughts and I feel that i am supressing the thoughts.Sublimation will help to understand the fleeting thoughts.
  1. Manohar
  2. 2 months ago
  3. #72
Hari Om Ganesh ji. What is Sublimation? How to do it - can you give an example?
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Hari Om

Some say that the Rajas in you creates disturbances and this generates thoughts.

In my case, some of the deepest meditation have happened when I am physically tired after running long or after strenuous yoga sessions. Some days mind is just relaxed and meditation is deep.

I used to over think about situations and experiences and this used to affect meditation as well. I don't know about Karma Yoga not being done properly. But I think eventually practicing it properly will result in possessing calm mind. Analyzing too much would not be very helpful - गहना कर्मणो गतिः
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  1. Manohar
  2. 2 months ago
  3. #68
Hari Om - Mahavir ji - The rest or calmness you experience in sleep is definitely not meditation. You are totally unaware of your mind and body and not in control.

Is it possible to have thoughts and not be aware of it? Not possible I think. If we don't identify with the thoughts and able to go beyond the mind then there is a different kind of calm with awareness. All the techniques like chanting are to help you to reduce thoughts and become peaceful. But don't try too hard to see if you are becoming peaceful. Have you noticed that if you are trying hard to sleep you cannot sleep at all?

  1. Mahavir
  2. 1 month ago
  3. #78
Hari Om! I think that's the question --- "Is it possible to have thoughts and not be aware of it?" --- In deep sleep, are there no thoughts at all? Or are there thoughts but there is no awareness of them? I mean breathing still occurs in deep sleep and we are not aware of it!

Likewise, Swamiji's explanation of Sthithapragnasya in absorption (below) seems to indicate both i.e. He is without thoughts (part A below) and He is not conscious of body, senses, mind though they function (part B below)

Part A: when he is absorbed in that knowledge he is thoughtless -- one aspect. Second is-he is thoughtless i.e. he is without mind, all thoughts have ceased---the next aspect is he remains as the Self - ATmana- dissolving the individuality in that Atman he now remains as the pure Atman -- This kind of experience of being the pure Self is not possible without knowledge.
Part B: Is it possible to give up (not be conscious of) the body, senses, mind? Is it possible to have an awareness without being cluttered by these? That is called Samadhi. Samyak (very well) Aadhanam (placing) - Placing oneself fully is called Samadhi.
  1. Mahavir
  2. 1 month ago
  3. #79
Never mind...Swamiji's explanation on v55 clarifies all this.
  1. Manohar
  2. 1 month ago
  3. #80
Hari Om - Mahavar ji.

Can you summarize your observations and post a response / comment to this post? We could resolve this action.

This will benefit everyone.

Thanks,
Manohar
  1. Mahavir
  2. 1 month ago
  3. #81
Hari Om! Sure....

On the original question of "Was karma yoga not done correctly due to which those thoughts felt like being suppressed?"
Br. Vedji at the end of second meditation video (copied below) says not to following that line of thought
If we try to investigate why that thought is coming, you are actually following that thought and so get disturbed. Moment you realize mind is going somewhere...drop that thought at that very moment. We have a habit of tracing that thought. This thought came from that thought etc.. It doesn’t matter where how we reached there. Moment we realize other thought comes drop that thought. Don’t stop meditation because of this. Make sure you are following this sequence properly..Doesn’t matter let thoughts come. As soon as you realize there is other thought, drop it and go on. As you practice you will realize which way works.

On the question of "Is it possible to have thoughts and not be aware of it?" and comparisons between deep sleep and samadhi
Swamiji's explanation on v55 is copied below (I interpreted this to mean Samadhi is being the Self which is also absence of thoughts since Self is other than thoughts, whereas deep sleep is a thought)

Sthithapragnasya has given up all thoughts in mind -- not just desires
All thoughts in mind = Kama, Sankalp, Sandeha, Shraddha, AShraddha etc..
All means no good, no bad, every thought -- even thought of Aham Brahmasmi
Prajahati means voluntarily - you have given up - this is Sattva
Jahati means involuntarily as in deep sleep -- This is Tamas -- deep sleep is also a thought -- it is the thought of absence (Abhava Pratyaya) -- thats why we say we experienced “nothing” in deep sleep.
Person in Samadhi gives up that “nothing” also! Pure consciousness alone is!
One goes beyond every remnant of any thought --- Pure consciousness alone remains (Atmani Atmanah Eva Tushtaha)
In deep sleep also there is happiness -- but happiness of deep sleep is not happiness of Self, but is the happiness of ignorance-- we are blissfully ignorant. But here we are blissfully knowledgeable
Atmani - in the Self
Atmanah - as the Self
Tushtaha = fulfilled, purnam, santushataha
Gone into the Self as the Self like a Salt doll in ocean as the ocean (Salt doll went to measure depth of ocean and dissolved into it...Salt doll now is the ocean!)
Dissolved into the Self (Atmani) as the Self (Atmanah) Tushtaha
So, answer for Q1:
When all thoughts have ended, including the thought of nothing, including thought of Aham Brahmasmi in the Self as the Self (not experiencing the Self, but as the Self) One is complete
This is explanation of Sthita Prajna in Samadhi
He is not seeing the Self, He is the Self (in samadhi)
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